Full Transcript:

Jess Gregory  

All right. All right, everybody. Thank you for joining us today I have coach Dave Zelnick from the Citadel How we doing today Dave?

Dave Zelenock  

Doing great.

Jess Gregory  

Perfect. How is life in lockdown?

Dave Zelenock  

It's definitely interesting. Yeah. You know, I'm, I'm glued to my computer, my iPad, my phone pretty much all day, every day talking to our players, our recruits our assistant coach. I mean, he just got on three weeks ago, like he joined in the middle of this. So it's been nice to see you and get away. And now we'll talk you know, through all these electronic mediums.

Jess Gregory  

Nice. All right, well, you're hanging in there, find a new new normal, I guess that's all you do. So, same here. That's why we're trying to get these fun interviews going on just to have some human interaction for

Dave Zelenock  

someone outside of my kids and dogs and my wife. Yeah,

Jess Gregory  

exactly. Exactly. So well, I want to learn some more about that. I do know a little bit about you as I know Michelle Cole, she used to work for you or at the Citadel. Um, but I want to learn from you and kind of hear how you got into coaching and where you started and how you ended up the head coach over at the Citadel.

Dave Zelenock  

Sure, um, I've been coaching since I was 15. I started working with like the freshman team when I was a sophomore at my high school. And then from there, it was various high schools and clubs. And I kind of knew all along as a player, I was super limited. I was much better at the thinking side of things and the physical side. So just, you know, works camps and clubs and all this stuff. And then my senior year in college, I ran into someone who had a second assistant position opening, and that's kind of where it started. So my senior year in college, I was a second assistant at a Division Two school. Oh, wow. When I tell people I've been coaching 17 years, it sounds weird because I've only been out of college for 16 years. But you know, from there, it was working my way up. division twos division one, and then my alma mater, Central Michigan came open, which was kind of my goal all along with coaching. They weren't terribly good when I was an undergrad and I was friends with all the players and just bummed me out at school. I was bad. So that was a goal fix my school. So luckily, I got to go there. And I was there for six years. We won the first ever championship. They've had good, some really good things. And then from there, I moved to Tennessee Tech, and then the Citadel. And that's, that's where I'm at now.

Jess Gregory  

Awesome. Yeah, that sounds like a really cool career to kind of start super early and work your way up to the the head coaching level. I know I've talked to some some younger coaches that are like they hit don't have any experience at the college level. And they're like, I'm going to be the head coach tomorrow at some big school. So it's nice to kind of hear that you did have to kind of work your way, way through.

Dave Zelenock  

Yeah, I think I was nine years as an assistant coach before I jumped over to the big chair.

Jess Gregory  

Yeah, thanks. I like that. Now that you are in the big chair, can you share Some of your most rewarding parts about being a coach all these years.

Dave Zelenock  

Sure, I mean, my background is education. That's why I went to school for my family are all teachers. So that's kind of the stuff I live for like to see a kid who's struggled with something for months. And then finally it clicks. And they do it in a game when it really matters. And that sort of aha moment that a kid gets, I get the most out of those, you know, wins and stuff. They're fun, their championships are cool, all that stuff, but seeing it could actually grow over those four years on the court and off the court is kind of the reason I do it at least. Mm hmm.

Jess Gregory  

Yeah, that sounds great. I don't think you're alone in that. I think a lot of us do it for the growth of the athlete and kind of helping those four years. I'm sure it's cool to see. You know, you bring in these kids when they're in high school and sometimes they're, you know, young sophomores or juniors when they sign I'm having kind of like fun stories about watching those kids grow through until they're, you know, 24 year old woman at that point, graduate.

Dave Zelenock  

Yeah, it's it's kind of funny that a lot of my players, I have them on like Facebook now and I have to figure out who they are because their last names are all different. Some of my players had kids before I did, because I was so young into it. And it's just it's funny to recruit a kid when she's 14. And then she graduates gets married. And it's just it's so interesting to see that dynamic. I had somewhere like, I'm never getting married. I'm never having kids. And I'm like, looking at them. Now. I'm like, Oh, look, you've got two kids, and you're married. And it's, it's just kind of always funny to hear what a 14 year old thinks their life is gonna be versus a 20 year old. And even with within the school, they they come here, they're like, we want to be a marine biologist, or you know, and then it's a vet. And then it's an English teacher, like just those changes and just seeing them grow up. And I don't I don't want to say get back to the real world, but kind of, you know, everyone has sort of some lofty goals at 14 but then by 20, they're like, Alright, I'm gonna do this. Yeah. And it's kind of fun to watch those things happen.

Jess Gregory  

Yeah, absolutely. Now on the flip side of that, Have you found any specific challenges maybe throughout the years that you've really kind of thought back on and went, Wow, okay, that's makes coaching a little bit harder. Yeah.

Dave Zelenock  

Yeah. I mean, I don't want to sound like an old curmudgeon and do these kids today. But because people have been doing that for thousands of years saying the next generation soft. I think what's really cool about right now is the title nine generation. So all of the kids that we're recruiting now, their moms had a chance to play in college. So the level of athleticism and knowledge of the sport is just through the roof. I mean, 15 years ago, if you had one or two kids who could touch 10 feet, it was like, holy Jeez, that's, that's a big deal. Now, you don't have all of your attackers touching 10 feet, what are you doing? And just they come in with so much more athleticism and knowledge because they're getting it from their parents. You know, my parents, my mom didn't have that ability to play in college back then they didn't have women's sports. So it makes it easier in that sense. The whole senses, they know a lot. They have the internet at their fingertips. So they come in with some ideas of how things should be run. And maybe they're not realistic sometimes. And well, this is how my friend this school, okay, that's fine. That's that school, this is how you know, because they're so connected and they think everything has to be a certain way. And then, you know, you go to enough schools, every school is completely different in the way they handle everything.

Jess Gregory  

Yeah, I think this is a good way to kind of learn about other coaches too, and their style and, and give kids the opportunity to see, okay, this code runs it this way. This coach runs it that way. So I think it's good for athletes to be able to learn those things about coaches and programs before they get there so that they kind of know what they're getting themselves into.

Dave Zelenock  

Yeah, it's better. It's better to do that and have buyer's remorse and, you know, going to the transfer portal and have to redo all of that stuff. You know, all that hard work of building relationships, dude, yeah, it's rough.

Jess Gregory  

Yeah, absolutely. Um, okay, so I kind of want to Though and learn a little bit more about that then so what kind of tips would you have for kids that are now in the recruiting process and they can be general they don't have to be specific to your school, but some some easy recruiting tips for them during this time, whether they would be playing or not,

Dave Zelenock  

I think develop more as a person, the specializing in volleyball at such a young age, and the people who are like, well, I've got a, you know, it's volleyball and academics. That's all I'm going to do ever. They don't really develop as a person. And when you get to college, at least a lot of the coaches that I know and talk to, we want interesting people, you know, who are just, I'm just gonna look at a book in the Bible. And that's it for four years. You know, do you play piano Do you knit? Like, do we do anything else? I knit, by the way? Yeah. So that's develop other skills other than volleyball because you know how many of us are going to play pro? Not a lot. So have some other things that you bring to the table. We spend so many hours with these kids, like You know, the 20 is allowable, but then there's bus rides and sitting in airports and all that stuff. I just, I like interesting people to be around. And that's a big thing for me. There's so many people who can touch 10 feet and hit the ball hard. But can you can you talk shop and talk some other things with me? And you know, be a fun person? I don't know how many people are giving that advice. That's just I guess for me. Yeah, cuz, you know, two kids who look exactly the same on paper and play the same. I'll take the more interesting one, then. That sounds mean, but the boring kid who's not gonna do anything? Yeah.

Jess Gregory  

Well, you guys are spending a lot of time with these players. Like you said, there's all those extra minutes that you're with them. That's not necessarily on the court. So you want to kind of build a program with people that you would want to be around that much.

Dave Zelenock  

Yes, exactly.

Jess Gregory  

Yeah, I mean, cuz Yes, I remember back in the day playing you are with these people all the time. So now, I gotta, I gotta ask, what do you knit? That sounds like fun.

Dave Zelenock  

So every year I try and learn a new skill, just because it's my nature. And two, three years ago, Teresa Livingston, who's now the head coach at Radford. She was an assistant coach for me. And she was knitting and I have terrible hand eye coordination. I guess it's a crime, how bad it is. And I was like, that would probably be helpful. So she taught me how to do it. And then from there, I just kind of took off and so like, I knit a full size blanket for every senior on my team. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's fun. It keeps me busy on the bus. I can't watch a video because I get a little motion sickness, but I can sit knit, ah, blankets, like 2530 hours. And yeah, they're big. They're, I mean, and they're all unique to them. I never repeat the same thing. I'll do headbands and mittens, things like that. I don't know. It's just something to keep me busy. Really?

Jess Gregory  

Yeah. Oh, that's super fun. I bet you they really enjoy that getting back in.

Dave Zelenock  

I think so. It's different. You know, it's not a jersey. case it's something they can actually use and I've been working on lock picking for the last couple of months not for any future crimes just again for you know, working on those those hand skills and so I've got some clear padlocks that are kind of fun so you can see the insides when you're working on them.

Jess Gregory  

Oh, nice. Yeah, so that I mean you definitely got to do something during this time to stay busy I think those are some great options for sure. Do you have any other tips for kids that how they can kind of stay busy and maybe get their their mind working a little bit more on the mental side? 

Dave Zelenock  

Sure. I think there's so much out there and resources about you know, mental toughness and all these things. But you can really take a look at your game. You know, everyone's got video of themselves and they've got iPads and computers, just slow mo yourself and that's one of the things that helped me a lot as a player and it helps a lot of my kids right now. You know, we'll pause it after the libero is passed. And if I'm blocker, how many options is set or have before it even gets near? And then we just pause, pause over and over. And then we see how volleyball really everything narrows down to a what has to happen? Mm hmm. So the beginning of the play, there's 50 things can happen. But the past did this. And then the center did this and the hitters coming in this angle, and then it becomes very obvious, this is the only thing that can happen. So if you can learn to kind of filter the game down every single time, it'll really help your mental side of the game, you know, the physical stuffs good, go for a run, jump a bunch, whatever. But if you can get a little bit smarter with the game, I think that makes you more valuable as a recruit. Mm hmm.

Jess Gregory  

Absolutely. That is the first time I've heard a coach suggest doing that. But I think that's a great idea. Because I think that would help people kind of read the game a little bit better to this kind of understanding. Obviously, it's going much faster, and it's quick while you're out there, but I think if you can kind of slow it down. That's a great option. I wish I would have thought of that when I was when I was there.

Dave Zelenock  

That's how we had to learn back then. because there wasn't a lot of volleyball on TV and there wasn't the internet. So it was taping Olympic match on VHS and pause, play, pause, play over and over again.

Jess Gregory  

Yeah. And then be sure to be kind in please rewind.

Dave Zelenock  

Right, right.

Jess Gregory  

Yeah. Um, all right. I kind of want to jump back to the recruiting part of it because I like to hear coaches thoughts on like their favorite do's and don'ts of communication with coaches, because I know we all have those stories. You know, the crazy emails we get. So what are some some do's and don'ts on your end that you like to offer up?

Dave Zelenock  

Okay, these ones might be a little off the wall. I love it. If I see a player throw her water bottle at her mom and tell her to fill it up. It's kind of a no no for me like you had time between matches, do it yourself. That really bothers me if as soon as the match is over, they run and they get on their phones. We pay attention to all that stuff. It may look like we're not but you know, we all looking at our phones just scribbling notes, seeing who's doing what and those character things make a big deal for me. with communicating with me, for me, I will never text a player first. I, I don't like texting 16 year old girls, I find that creepy. So for me, it's always like, we'll email until we've had a phone conversation. And then once there's a report, okay, I can text you a little bit once I know the tone of how you talk and everything is, you know, there's no one's invented a font for sarcasm yet. So it's hard to hard to know what someone means sometimes. And I tend to have some dry humor, and I don't want that to be lost on someone because they didn't understand. So for me, that's kind of the order of operations with communicating. I don't, I don't think you need these long. I get I mean, crazy, long emails. And I have a new assistant coach who, you know, he's he's new to the game. He's saying the same thing. He's like, what does this mean? I'm like, it means she's bored. It's four pages of autobiography. Yeah, all I need to know is what year are you in what position? Okay, cool. I'll come see you You know, some of the other stuff is great. They're saying what their other hobbies are, like I mentioned, I like interesting. But as a first email, if you could keep it a little brief and have video in it, that's the key. If you say, Hey, I'm a six foot middle and touch 10 feet, call me, Come on, show me Show me a little video or something more than that, but just kind of, you know, keep it a little bit shorter, but it doesn't need to be one sentence is that I'm kind of saying conflicting things I understand. But, you know, just kind of, I guess, understand that we get a lot of emails. And I know certain recruits do too. But, you know, every morning when I wake up, and there's 75 emails, and they're all five pages long, it's like, oh, my gosh, this becomes a little cumbersome. So if you can just, it sounds bad. sell yourself. Yeah. Something in the tagline that's gonna get us to really pay attention to Oh, you know, I've had kids say, I'm going to be your next setter. Okay, help. I'm interested. Let me see how am I yeah. That's that's an interesting thing and the here's, I guess the number one of all you communicate with us. I don't want to hear from mom and dad. Oh, just you know, we'll talk to him during the process obviously but once you get here I coach you I don't coach mom. And in all honesty when she calls me I'm not going to answer like that's it's a known rule with me. We'll talk and be friendly but we will never talk about volleyball once your kid comes here we can talk about fishing and weather but we're not talking volleyball while your kids on the team.

Jess Gregory  

Yeah, yeah, it sounds like you and I have a very similar coaching style camera style so I get it, I definitely get it. Um, but just to kind of recap for the kids you want something that they're that they can quickly put out there with their name and their grad year is very important as well because your division one right, so they need to make sure they let you know how old they are. So you know if you can respond. Um, and then yeah, just something quick and And a nice video. Now I have a question for you about that Do you like, like fun videos where someone's like, Hey, this is me doing a backflip and then they go into their volleyball Are you kind of one that's like I just want to see if you're a middle Can you do middle things? If you're a setter, you said that sort of thing.

Dave Zelenock  

Ya know the fun stuff I actually do enjoy that when they put good music behind it. Sometimes I watch videos twice just because they had a good song. Which I know it's terrible but you know as far as positions with with a middle cap, I see you do it once. The highlights are great for metals because I've seen you do it a little bit. I can get you to do it again. setters love barrows, you need kind of more long form to be able to see what type of mistakes they make, how they act, do they repeat the air, things like that. But yeah, I think that's exactly it. The fun stuff. As long as it's not crazy. You know, it's not going too long but 1015 seconds, and then get into what what we're all waiting to see you know, if you're a middle, I don't need to see you pass in for 30 minutes. Let's just hit a ball block a ball, call it a day.

Jess Gregory  

Yeah, sounds good. Well, it also sounds like you're just building relationships with these kids. And it's not a one off, you know, where you're like, Oh, I saw this video, boom, you're signed, you guys are trying to relationship with these guys and kind of going through that process as well.

Dave Zelenock  

Yeah, we have to especially the school route, trust is a huge deal for us. They've got to trust that I have their best interest in mind when I make these decisions. Because we make so many decisions as coaches, we don't have time to really ask them their opinions. We just have to do things. And they've got to trust that we're doing it for the right reasons and selfish reasons. So yeah, that recruiting process is all about sort of building that trust.

Jess Gregory  

Yeah, absolutely. Now, I do want to kind of ask because I know a little bit about the Citadel but um, the kids are coming in to be a part of the military or how does that work? I just want to know a little more about it.

Dave Zelenock  

So we're unique. We're not army or Navy or any of those are federal service academies. So if you go there, you're going into the service like Do you have to five years I think we don't have to. Only about a third of our kids actually go into the service. So yeah, it's not that many and it's it's a military lifestyle though. So you're wearing uniform you're marching you're doing all your saluting, you're doing all the military stuff, the same stuff. The Citadel is kind of pulled from other schools. So part of their knob year looks like army and part of this looks like Air Force. So they're kind of a mixture. But you know, it's a it's a definitely unique person who would go to our school because why would you go to a military school if you're not going to go into the military? Right? You know that? The answer is because you want to make a lot of money. Our recruits they make a lot of money with it more than anyone else. Oh, wow. We've been the number one school in the south nine years in a row. And our our alumni take care of our kids on a crazy level. Like most of them have very good jobs before they graduated.

Jess Gregory  

Yeah. Oh, that's really interesting to know. Yeah, that makes the recruiting process probably a little bit different, too. Cuz you're not just recruiting a kid, right? He wants to be a nurse or something they want to be. Maybe a military nurse, I guess would be a thing exam. 

Dave Zelenock  

When I got there, we had one, one girl who was going in and she's in the army and she's doing great. We've got I think five or six right now. Mostly, I think Air Force. But yeah, it's just it's really a unique person. You know, you see, on their resume, they graduated from the Citadel, your first thought is like, oh, they're a little crazy. They did this thing, you know? Yeah. But it also they're like, they willingly put themselves through that environment for four years. It really sets them apart from anywhere else because like even other service academies like army, you're not gonna you're not gonna see those kids because they're going into the army. They're not applying for a job down the street. They're gone. So we're kind of us VMI but they don't have women's volleyball. There's a couple of us left, but there's only VMI in us, I think are the only division ones who don't have to go in and serve you. He's really interesting.

Jess Gregory  

Now that makes me want to ask the next question then to kind of learn about your idea of success. Having coached at this level and other levels, if you think of a past successful team, do you think that the talent and skill side of the game stood out more or the mental toughness of the athletes?

Dave Zelenock  

I mean, it's, it's tough. Yeah. I want to say both because, you know, my first thought is, what was it 2010 or 11? I shouldn't know. But I don't. One of my last years at Central Michigan, when we won the Mac title, we went in the tournament, sixth ranked team. And we beat number three, number two, number one on the way to winning it. And, you know, it was mostly juniors on the floor for us and athletically. They were pretty good. I don't think we were nearly the best in the conference. I mean, we were six all year. But they just got this crazy look in their eye going into that week. And after the first match, I was like, oh, I called my wife back home. Like, yeah, we're not coming back. And she was like, really? I'm like, Yeah, they're kind of crazy right now. Yeah, it just showed, you know, they were every division one team, you know, outside of the top 50 has a lot of good kids who are similar. And we were in the same boat. We, you know, we had a right side who jumped? Well, we had an outside big arm like it was fine. But once they flipped into that zone, they just, they weren't going to lose. It was it was crazy to see like teams that just hammered us during the regular season. We just no problem. It was done. So I think that mental toughness is what really that team sticks with me forever because I saw a group of people just decide to win a championship. And it was it was crazy to see them just Yep, let's go do the thing.

Jess Gregory  

Yeah, that is amazing that you can just kind of turn it on. And doesn't it make you wonder why they couldn't turn it on the whole time? You know?

Dave Zelenock  

Yeah, yeah, just It drives me nuts. I try to not focus on that side. But you know, even now we have there's there'll be a team that you know, On paper, so much better than us, and we'll go out there and win or lose the way we play is just a thing of beauty. And I'm like, why don't you do that against the team that's even with us? We beat them three. Oh, and like, we don't know. It's just it comes and goes. And I think that's, that's what separates those, those top 25 teams from the rest of us, you know, those kids are, I mean, their home day, obviously, they're athletically gifted, but they can just turn their brain on and just go into that mode all the time. And our kids struggle, you know, with getting that we've got academics and the military stuff, not just academics, like most people, so it's hard to push those things to the back and really focus on the game.

Jess Gregory  

Yeah. Well, it sounds like now's a good time then for kids to maybe try to work on their mental toughness a little bit while they're off the court so that when they get back into it, they're kind of roll because you're right. It's interesting when you look at teams that look good on paper, and then they get out on the court or the fields or the Ice, whatever it is, and then just struggle. So yeah. Very interesting. Well, I really appreciate you sitting down and chatting with me. I loved learning so much more about you and your program. And hopefully everyone watching will will take some positives away from this and kind of take it and run with it while we're all while we're all in lockdown. Right, right. So, but yeah, I appreciate you sitting down and hopefully we'll chat with you soon.

Dave Zelenock  

Sounds good. Thanks for having me. 

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